Esto ya es de alucine. ¿Un impuesto sobre las impresoras?. ¿Pero quién se dedica a copiar libros con una impresora?. Nosotros mismos nos hemos vuelto autores sin saberlo, vamos a pagar impuestos sin ninguna compensación. ¡Esta gente se ha vuelto loca que alguien los pare!

Además, en el fondo, les da igual: lo importante es cobrar el canon. Que es la forma de financiar las verdaderas redes de piratería: las del top manta.

Canon y más canon, es lo que tiene ver que algo es rentable. Han visto que con la misma excusa pueden sacarnos pasta por muchos sitios, y si el gobierno les complace nos va a tocar jodernos y pagar. Es lo más triste.
Yo que en un futuro espero dedicarme a la informática, pretenden joder el negocio informático, encareciendo el producto cuando lo normal en la informática siempre ha sido el abaratamiento de costes y de venta. En fin.

Hay que hacer algo. Les tenemos que parar... nosotros.

Pues va a ser que algunos puestos de trabajo les preocupan más que otros.

Porque con tal de sacarnos sus pastones son capaces de llevar al sector tecnológico y telecomunicaciones a la ruina.

Como cobren el canon por todo eso, vamos que me deslocalizo de inmediato: Gibraltar, Andorra y Marruecos no están lejos.

Hay una pregunta que ronda mi cabeza, una vez implantados todos estos impuestos revolucionarios (sí $$$$ métame una demanda a mí también) contra la opinión del Ministerio de Industria, que bueno, esos son unos mindudis del 3/4 cuya opinión no vale de nada, y cuando paguemos el ADSL a unos 100 euros, los ordenadores ya no te quiero ni contar, las impresoras, el scanner, las memorias, cuando cientos de empresas de telecomunicaciones dejen España para instalarse en países más baratos y por siguiente se destruyan puestos de trabajo, cuando se frene el desarrollo de las tecnologías, etc, etc, etc ¿se seguirán quejando o ya se quedarán bien agustito?.

Todos los puestos de trabajo son iguales, pero unos puestos de trabajo son más iguales que otros.

Al que le ronda la pregunta, no pienses mucho no vaya a ser que te cobren un canon por utilizar el cerebro.

Parece que estos elementos cuando hay tema monetario de por medio no son muy progresistas no?

Ya no es que se rian del ciudadano que al fin y al cabo es el que siempre se rasca el bolsillo, es que ademas van a arruinar a decenas de empresas que luchan desde siempre sin el apoyo de las instituciones contra sus homologas extranjeras, y que tambien desde los proximos meses lo haran con las zancadillas del gobierno, no se si decir del PSOE o de la SGAE, español.

Siempre lo he dicho, solo los corruptos del PSOE consiguen poner en el poder a los fascistas del PP.

Mi paradoja favorita: Los politicos son el cancer de la democracia.

Me parece a mí que mi próximo ordenador me lo voy a ir a comprar en Andorra.

Yo es que la flipo, se creen que vamos a pasar por el aro ? Vamos, me veo comprando hardware en media europa para eludir darles un puto centimo a estos ladrones. Porque he leido por ahi que aumentaria el precio final con el canon de un 25% a un 40 %. Luego se quejaran al igual que en la musica que se cierran empresas y se despiden empleados, si es que con estas pajas mentales que se les ocurren vaya tela, vaya tela....

¿Y el canon al cerebro por poder almacenar datos con derechos de autor que? Sería perfecto para los dirigentes de la SGAE, nos robaria aun mas dinero y ellos estarian exentos de pagarlo

Estas cosas pasan cuando toda la sociedad tiene que adaptarse un sector, y no a la inversa como suele suceder. Pero claro, ellos son "artistas" y por lo tanto son diferentes, unas veces son iguales para pedir y otras son distintos para pedir. El caso es poner el cazo.

Una sociedad que tiene beneficios desorbitantes ¿ cómo puede justificar ante el gobierno la imposicion de un nuevo canon ?

Y otra duda que tengo: el canon sobre el soporte físico CD se impuso porque hubo una demanda judicial de la SGAE contra los proveedores. En ningún caso, el gobierno intervino, sino que fue una resolución judicial.
¿ Por qué ahora el gobierno hace de abogado del diablo ? Sería más lógico que la SGAE demandase a todas las operadoras de internet y que la justicia les diese o les quitase la razón.

Si el gobierno interviene ¿ podemos los ciudadanos pedir cánones compensatorios para todos aquellos aspectos de la vida que nos veamos perjudicados y para los que tengamos derecho ? Se me ocurre vivienda, alimentos, etc.

Me parece alucinante que haya tanta nube oscura informativa...
No tenemos derecho a la copia privada? Ese derecho no es a cambio de un canon compensatorio?
Si es asi, que se defina sobre qué soportes y en qué forma (dando la opcion de con y sin canon para los casos en los que no sea aplicable: las fotos del bautizo de mi sobrino), se paga (los que lo tengan que pagar, que hacer algo "ilegal o no es responsabilidad del que lo hace" y que se callen. Que se calle teddy, SGAE, ACAM... que se callen.
Si no es asi, se dice que no es asi y veremos.

Lo que no puede ser es que cada uno lo interprete como quiera, que haya una nube de dos años de carcel. De qué va esto?
Alguien debería aclarar todo esto antes de seguir aplicando mierdas de canon y "ahora la justicia actua"...
Que actue quién tenga que actuar y los demás a callar.

¿Se puede pedir un canon compensatorio al gobierno cuando suben los precios o los tipos de interés?. Es que a mí esas cosas también me perjudican seriamente a mi trabajo. Ah no, que nosotros somos la sociedad en general, no la sociedad de autores. A nosotros que nos jodan.

Cobrar un canon por algo que ellos quieren eliminar. Está muy bien eso...¿recuerdan cómo algunas mafias extorsionan a comercios ofreciendo su protección y si no les pagas te destrozan el local o directamente te matan?. ¿Curioso verdad?.

¿Os acordáis cuando uno de los representantes de la SGAE dijo que un 30% en un CD no era para tantas quejas, vamos unas perrillas de nada?. Bien, pues echad cuentas si son unos eurillos de nothing entre un 25% y un 40% sobre una memoria, sobre una impresora, sobre un scanner o sobre el alquiler de ADSL.

Nada, nada, (nothing, nothing) cuatro duros. Si es que nos quejamos de vicio...

Tengo unas dudas sobre la aprobación de esta ley.

Por un lado, PP+IU+BNG presentan una propuesta de ley en el Senado que pide que se excluyan específicamente este tipo de soportes (como aplicables de canon).

Por otro lado, el gobierno presentará una propuesta que incluya este tipo de soportes.

¿Qué es lo que tiene que pasar para que se apruebe una u otra? Porque no me queda claro eso de que en el Senado tengan mayoría unos y en el Congreso otros.

¿ERC y CiU se han pronunciado al respecto?

Por otra parte, las firmas que se están recaudando contra el canon. Si se llega a 25000 firmas, ¿cambia algo?

Y ya en el último lugar: ¿se podría dar la rocambolesca situación en que se aprueba primero una de estas leyes y luego la otra?

Esto es increible, a mi me da que el OSITO teddy se a picado y mucho por que david y victor estan saliendo mucho en la tv y le esta mostrando a la españa ignorante los que de verdad son los ladrones en este pais.

Teneis toda la razón sobre la deslocalización. Por ejemplo, creo que las tiendas que venden CD-R en la Seu d'Urgell (Lleida) habrán visto disminuir drásticamente sus ingresos, ya que tienen Andorra a 10km y una bobina de 100 CD-R a 14 €... Lo malo es que el ADSL no se puede pinchar de allí. Y encima los cedés originales van con anticopias (en uno leí que daba problemas en autorradios, uno de los pocos sitios donde no se puede copiar música)

Yo los CD's los compro en Andorra y los DVD's tambien, a ver ahora si tendré que añadir a esta lista los cartuchos de tinta, las memorias flash y las cámaras digitales (como te puedes piratear tus propias fotos...)

Me da igual que sea un 30% o un 1%. Me voy de cabeza a comprarlo a Andorra o Gibraltar o por internet desde Alemania o de donde sea. Aunque con los portes me salga más caro.
Ahora que sindo del 30% para arriba, no voy a ser el único. Porque los viajes van a salir rentables.

Patada en los huevos a la tecnología.

Me imagino que haremos caravanas para pillar equipos en portugal.

¿QUIERES COLABORAR?

Colabora para difundir por foros y correos electrónicos estas noticias y enlaces.

"El precio de los ordenadores, las memorias,CD regrabables, escáneres, grabadores de CD, DVD, impresoras y cualquier otro instrumento electrónico capaz de reproducir copias, incluido el ADSL, puede subir entre un 25% y un 40% en los próximos meses. La razón está en la imposición de un canon cuyos ingresos se destinarán a las entidades gestoras de los derechos de autor. Dado que este gravamen no existe en otros países de la Unión Europea, las empresas han advertido al ministro de Industria, José Montilla, que puede provocar deslocalizaciones de empresas".

http://www.lavanguardia.es/web/20050404/51180905406.html

"La Federación de Consumidores en Acción (FACUA) ha puesto en marcha a través de su portal en Internet una campaña de recogida de firmas para reivindicar la modificación del Texto Refundido de la Ley de Propiedad Intelectual para acabar con los sistemas anticopia en obras musicales y audiovisuales, que recortan los derechos de los usuarios, y la actual imposición de un canon injusto y arbitrario por la compra de CDs y DVDs vírgenes."

http://facua.org/noalcanon/

Esto ya comienza a apestar, por usar el simil que primero viene a la cabeza.

Siento que huelo mal, porque vote a esta gentuza, me da igual todo lo demas, estoy hasta la coronilla de que les pagen el no a la guerra que gritamos muchos, sobre todo desde la red, eso tiene facil solución, no les vuelvo a votar, voto a IU o Los Verdes, prefiero que mi voto no sea util antes que dar de comer a estos.

Siento que este pais huele mal, Chaves intentando regalar ordenadores en andalucia, apoyando el software libre y banda ancha para todos y esta niña del vogue riéndoles las gracias a estos, deberia dedicarse a que todos accedamos a la cultura no a joder la democracia real que supone la red.

No se que hara otra gente, pero yo tengo Gibraltar cerca, así que cuando necesite dvds o cds o una camara nueva...me piro un ratito al peñon, la mayoria no hara eso, o si, que pocas toallas hay por cadiz que no traigan de portugal, los que van a sufrir, los productores nacionales, pena de millones invertidos en el PTA

Una pregunta, ¿si una empresa radicada en gibraltar ofrece adsl o similar, puedo contratarla desde españa? si es asi esa va a ser la solucion de muchos

Otra pregunta ¿que va a pasar realmente? no tienen mayoría absoluta y IU esta en contra, no me salen las cuentas

Ah, otra cosa que se me olvidó preguntar antes:

¿para aprobar este tipo de leyes basta con tener mayoría simple?

Si vamos ya bastante retrasados en cuanto a precios de ADSL, PC's, etc... ahora una subida del 25%-40% para darsela a esos grandisimos hijos de la $$$$.

En teoría el PSOE era un partido de izquierdas,pero la realidad es bien distinta...

Esperemos que todo esto no salga adelante por que sino jodidos estamos.

Un saludo para David y compañia!

Tolito

Si el ADSL (34,95 sin IVA; 40,54 con) lo subieran de un 25 a un 40 pasaría a costar entre 43,69 y 48,93 sin IVA. Con IVA ya serían entre 50,68 y 56,76 con IVA. Eso supondría darle a la SGAE entre 104,88 y 167,76 euros anuales. Ese es el mismo dinero que recibiría por el canon de 605 a 968 CD-R. Si esta subida totalmente abusiva se llegara a producir, se volvería al retoceso tecnológico del RTB de 56k/s y la SGAE estaría más forrada que nunca.

PD: Espero que no os haya aburrido con los cálculos ;)

Este país está lleno de borregos ahi teneís las consecuencias a hinchar más los estomagos de los artistas y los internautas a joderse y a pagar.Ley antipirateria,canones a gogo y me pregunto yo para que queremos internet?

Lo que abria que hacer seria hacer una huelga para no consumir música, software y otros, que tengan algún tipo de canon o de licencia propietaria. De esta manera, todo seria libre, y sin problemas.
¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡Usemos, software Libre!!!!!!!!!

mmm yo estoy encantado de pagar casi 60 euros por mes para mantener una línea que me permite tener correo, usar el chat o ver las noticias de Yahoo.

GRACIAS "ARTISTAS" lo vuestro sí que es libertad!

Parón tecnológico, deslocalización de empresa y todo para favorecer un colectivo!.

A mi no me sorprende nada esta noticia
es mas , yo ya lo comente en este mismo foro .

ahora , a mi me queda una duda , si le ponen canon al adsl a las impresoras a los cds y a lo que se les ocurra , ¿quiere decir que podremos descargarnos musica y peliculas tranquilamente o por el contrario nos van a cobrar un canon para compensar las descargas de musica al mismo tiempo que nos amenazan con demandas ?
por que de ser asi me parece un absurdo , ya que nos estarian cobrando un canon compensatorio al mismo tiempo que se prohibe realizar el acto por el cual ellos cobran un canon .

lo dicho , absurdo , hay que ver lo caro que nos esta saliendo a los consumidores el apoyo de los famosetes al PSOE en el no a la guerra .

por lo menos me queda el consuelo de que yo no vote a estos fantoches del PSOE .

Yo también voté a los sociatas... Pero me parece que "una y no mas, Santo Tomás"... Esto es un robo a mano armada y se están pasando... Hay que montar una buena para meterles miedo... Encima de que nuestro ADSL es el mas caro y lento de Europa, nos lo van a "canonizar"... Pero esto que es?

Pues lo unico q lograran sera la creacion de nuevas mafias. Venta de DVD´s virgenes pirata (sin canon), impresoras pirata, y que mas de uno se de baja el adsl para robarselo al vecino via wireless. En fin, el gobierno sabra a quien hace caso. No se dan cuenta aun, q meterse con internet es perder votos, muchos votos. La ventaja de internet es q aqui hay una comunidad y somos muchos, aunq no lo creamos tambien tenemos poder para presionar.

Y esto tiene posibilidades de salir adelante?

Me refiero a qué opinan el resto de partidos del tema.

Es que nadie en el PSOE se da cuenta de la barbaridad que pretenden hacer?

Cómo puede el Ministro de Industria apoyar esto?

Van a quedarse paradas las empresas del sector Informática y Telecos?

Demasiadas preguntas sin respuesta.

algunos se han caído del guindo muy tarde me parece a mí...las campañas para favorecer a un gobierno hay que pagarlas y la factura obviamente nos será remitida.

esto nos pasa, por un gobierno...
¿os acordáis?, ¿ahora ya no hace tanta gracia verdad?. Es lo que tiene.

Bueno, aunque no es el tema concreto de este hilo, voy a dejar aqui el dato.

En su dia he comentado, sobre el articulo de Miguel Rives, que mentia respecto a aquello de que las escuelas y academias de musica (entre otras cosas) estaban de capa caida por culpa de la pirateria musical.

Pues bien, hoy puedo ratificar con cifras reales lo que en su momento he tachado de falacia.

Enseñanzas de la música:
Curso 2001-2002 ... 120.280 alumnos.
Curso 2003-2004 ... 195.049 alumnos.

Si tenemos en cuenta la baja general de alumnos en todo el ambito educativo por el descenso de la natalidad, a la vista de esas cifras hay que decir que el incremento de alumnos en las enseñanzas musicales es muy significativo, casi 75.000 alumnos mas.

Fuente: Ministerio de Educación y Ciencia.
http://www.mec.es/mecd/jsp/plantilla.jsp?id=31&area=estadisticas

Sr. Rios, cuando hable de lo que no sabe, intente documentarse primero o vayase a dormir la mona, estará mas guapo.

sabe alguien por cuantos correos van los de FACUA?

Completamente de acuerdo. Despues se quejan de que no pueden vivir de su trabajo. ¿De que trabajo?. ¿De escribir dos lineas sin la mas minima informacion contrastada?
¿Todavia hay quien les pague por decir cuatro chorradas?
¡¡¡¡¡¡¡ Lamentable !!!!!!

Pinger, poj mira tu!

Habrá que tener pensada una estrategia por si tienen huevos de sacar esta ley adelante.

Por mi parte voy a ir proponiendo a mi comunidad de vecinos (aunque no soy propietario) "de", llegado el caso, poner una ADSL comunitaria y yo mismito me encargo de hacer toda la instalacion wireless si hace falta. A tomar por rasca! Si prosperase, Timofonica iba a tener del orden de 10 bajas solo en mi portal...

De aquí a que nos registren los correos electrónicos o pinchen nuestras líneas para saber qué decimos queda un paso.

El único punto positivo de todo esto es que, cuando antes se decía: "Madrid Rock ha cerrado por culpa de la piratería", ahora se podrá decir también: "PC City ha cerrado por culpa del multi-canon". Será verdad o no, pero si un grito falso ha calado, otro grito cierto o falso similar también puede cuajar.

En todo este asunto creo que nos falta ver cuál es la reacción "real" de las empresas de tecnología. En el artículo dice que se han quejado, veremos hasta donde llega esa queja. Igual si llega a Solbes y éste le dice a Zapatero que están en juego las elecciones dentro de 3 años, se lo piensa.

Todavia recuerdo a todos esos actores y musicos con sus cartelitos de "NO A LA GUERRA" , pues señores, eso hay que pagarlo, que no es gratis.

Ala, toda la gente joven a votar en masa al psoe, que como lo hace Alejandro Sanz mola...

Por cierto, el canon se puso en tiempos del PP ¿no? Que tan buenos son unos como los otros, por si acaso alguien se confundia con el post anterior...

un saludo

Querido escroto, porque eres una antigua amiga te lo digo. Sólo para que no te pases de lista, querida:

Multa de 1,5 millones de euros a comunidad de vecinos por radio y televisión ilegal (http://www.acam.es/noticias_detalle.php?id=654)

Que sois todas unas listas de la muerte...

Está muy bien quejarse por los foros, pero creo que habría que pasar a la acción y convocar manifestaciones y acción ciudadana.

¿Alguien sabe como organizarlo?

A ver, one moment plz, ese Canon se estableció a raiz de una sentanción del día 2 de Enero del 2002, que prácticamente obligó a la ASIMELEC la firma de un acuerdo con la $GAE en el 2003. Pero aquí estamos hablando de otra cosa, y es que es el propio Gobierno, no el Poder Judicial, contraviniendo las recomendaciones del Ministerio de Industria, el que por iniciativa propia y unilateral está queriendo imponer estas medidas.

Y que tiene que ver eso con el ADSL, Chari? Esa noticia hace referencia a "emisiones" de teles y radios ilegales desde un edificio con consentimiento (adivino, no es que la noticia lo diga) de la comunidad. Yo hablo de pagar una ADSL a pachas y que la use la comunidad... cada uno para lo que quiera.

No me entendiste, seguro, o yo me expliqué mal.

Lo que veo es que te sabes la web de la acam de memoria, Chari, qué prodigio! ;D

Yo sólo espero que al PSOE le pase factura esta situación.

En mi caso me manifesté en contra de la guerra, como millones de españoles, pero cuando hubo que votar me quedé en mi casa, tenía la impresión de que votara a quien votara no iba a estar a mi servicio, sino al servicio de según que intereses. Hoy por hoy me alegro de mi decisión.

Quiero hacer una llamada a la calma.

En primer lugar, esto es un anteproyecto de Ley que será remitido al Consejo de Ministros para su aprobación, aún le queda un largo trámite parlamentario en el Congreso y el Senado para su hipotética aprobación. Muchos de vosotros habláis como si fuera para mañana.

En segundo lugar, no he escuchado ninguna declaración oficial de ningún miembro del gobierno (que yo me haya enterado, ni siquiera la Ministra de Cultura), que ratifique en firme la aprobación de un canon sobre el ADSL o sobre discos duros, impresoras,etc... habrá que esperar.

En tercer lugar, en su primer año de gobierno éstos se han caracterizado por el amago-pero-no-doy, o por lanzar globos-sonda de a ver cómo sienta esta medida o como reacciona el personal a ésto.... no os extrañe que al final esto se quede en nada o casi nada...no os procupéis "la mula" va a seguir funcionando igual de bien.

Por último, una cuestión de aritmética. A la espera de la posición de CIU, ERC y PNV, el PP (quién lo diría de éstos), IU y BNG ya han dicho que se van a oponer de entrada, ya veremos si mantienen su palabra. Puede ser que el gobierno tenga que ceder mucho para aprobar una Ley de Propiedad Intelectual. Que alguien me corrija si me equivoco. el PP tiene mayoría en el Senado, no?.

Por cierto, la mayor empresa de España y con mucho interés en el asunto, aún no ha dicho nada, que se agarren a la silla quién se dé por aludido/a...

Ah! Chari, por si no lo has captado, esa empresa se llama Telefónica...

Un saludo. WhiteShark.

Yo se lo metía a los auriculares, 50euros mínimo y si son de color blanco 100euros. Por que todos los que usan auriculares son unos piratas y punto.

Con Alierta hemos topado. jeje

Más les vale parar el canon. Porque si no vamos a ser el cachondeo padre del mundo y parte del extranjero. Señor Teddy, no nos toque los deuvedes (ni el ADSl, ni los discos duros...)

Vaya verguenza, la cuestión es cobrar por todo
Lo que habría que hacer es comprar los discos originales y pasar de ir a ver los conciertos de esta gente, a ver de que vivirían
Saluds

Joder.
Es que son tan tontos que estan dispuestos a joder la economía y el futuro del I+D tecnológico español (si alguna vez existio) con tal de recaudar para sus queridos amigos de la SGAE. No me lo puedo casi ni creer

David, me meto un poco contigo en mi bitacora en respuesta a tu entrevista en ciberlinea:

http://barrapunto.com/journal.pl?op=display&uid=10901&id=12151

Perdon por el off-topic y la autocita.

Que al final no se lleve a cabo por el motivo que sea no debería restarle importancia, estos temas son muy serios y aunque, como acabo de decir, luego quede en una "leyenda urbana" como la del 1 de octubre, tenemos que hacer algo, por ejemplo una manifestación delante del ministerio de cultura.
Yo creo que si los de internautas.org o alguna otra asociación de ese tipo lo organiza (con fecha y hora) y empieza a extenderse la noticia por la red (que lo haría) seríamos muchos los presentes.

Y para las próximas elecciones tocará votar a los verdes o a partidos "pequeños" de esos con nombres raros (cabreados, amas de casa viudas, la paz de los pueblos...), que al menos conseguiremos quitarles poder (votos) a los "grandes".

¿Que sólo es un proyecto de ley?

Señores, ese proyecto de ley está siendo propuesto por ministros del gobierno, ese que sólo necesita convencer a un partido para lograr mayoría.

Y aunque necesitase veinte partidos apoyándole, yo me preguntaría qué puñetas hace la ministra de cultura proponiendo un paso atrás en el acceso a la fuente de información global más barata que existe y a dispositivos electrónicos que se están exigiendo en centros de educación. Del ministro de industria mejor no hablar.

Como para no llevarse las manos a la cabeza.

Escroto: es, tan solo, una cuestión conceptual. El futuro que yo veo es, conceptualmente, diferente del tuyo.

Esa diferencia de concepto me convierte en una iluminada. Y a tí también nos ha jodido.

Como ves, no somos tan diferentes. Tu defiendes tu bolsillo, yo el mío. Quizás yo esté un poco loca. Lo siento pero tú no.

Y yo, soy más bonita.

No le deis de comer al troll. Tiempo invertido en él es tiempo que no empleamos en pensar cómo solucionar lo que se nos viene encima. Que el troll viene aquí a marear.

CITAS:----------------------------------
Está muy bien quejarse por los foros, pero creo que habría que pasar a la acción y convocar manifestaciones y acción ciudadana.

¿Alguien sabe como organizarlo?
Juacko | 4 de Abril de 2005 - 06:13 PM
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Por cierto, el canon se puso en tiempos del PP ¿no? Que tan buenos son unos como los otros, por si acaso alguien se confundia con el post anterior...

un saludo
fiero | 4 de Abril de 2005 - 06:09 PM
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Yo sí. Quedamos todos por SMS delante de la sede del PSOE, o de la de la SGAE. Por cierto, que yo veo el canon como una cosa buena si da derecho a la copia privada, pero aplicado en los soportes DE COPIA (el ADSL es de acceso, coño, no de copia), es decir, tal y como está ahora. No me parece mal pagar un extra en el CD de 0.06€ por grabarme una peli del eMule. Pero lo que me parece una hipocresía alucinante-talante, es la persecución. Y en tiempos del PP sí, se impuso el canon, pero sí, pero fue el canon lo que legalizó la copia privada. Que no provoque remordimientos reconocer aciertos entre las idas de olla ...

De vez en cuando, es bueno echar la vista atras y buscar asombrosas coincidencias (o repeticiones, o continuidades) entre el pasado y el presente.

Como seguramente algunos no lo habeis leido con anterioridad, aqui esta el enlace:

http://diariored.com/blog/ana/archivo/000194.html

Es un articulo que no tiene desperdicio, como tampoco lo tienen algunos de los comentarios. Ejemplo:

"Por mi parte dire, que no estoy a favor de la piratería, la practico y la fomento.

Si yo pudiera duplicar en mi casa un Mercedes con la misma facilidad que duplico un CD de Julio Iglesias, lo haría sin dudar, y pienso que mas Propiedad Intelectual, tendrá el motor del Mercedes que el ¡Hey! de Julio Iglesias."

Aunque es un poco largo, seguro que se os hará entretenido.

No lo dire muy alto por si no se les habia ocurrido pero... ¿¿el cable de red tambien lo proponen con canon?? como sirve para conectarse y usar la ADSL y todas las pelis/musica/programas/etc pasan por el...

Esto empieza a ser un sinsentido total, canon a todo¡¡¡¡¡
Segun el pensamiento de esta gente, $GAE y afines, el canon podria ser aplicable absolutamente a todo, puesto que cualquier cosa se puede usar potencialmente para piratear,,, ¿que pasara cuando argumenten que es necesaria la energia electrica para piratear? ¿nos podran canon por tener un contador en el portal? ¿y cuando argumenten que el ordenador hay que ponerlo en una mesa? ¿nos cobraran por cada mesa que compremos?

Señores de la $GAE, un poquito de sentido comun, al igual que con un cuchillo jamonero se puede matar a una persona, con una grabadora de cds se puede piratear un cd-musical, pero ¡coño! que no todo el mundo compra un cuchillo para ir cometiendo asesinatos ni una grabadora de cds para piratear sus discos.

X Chari Ferrer

Vamos a ver, lo vas a conseguir, al final no nos vamos a dignar en responder nada de lo que pongas y vas a terminar siendo tan ignorada como las declaraciones del ministro de defensa iraqui cuando empezo la guerra, deberias saber que suele estar mal visto por la tradicion de forma general los auto-alagos, y no suelen ser muy creibles las palabras de una persona que se proclama iluminada.
Personalmente pienso que aunque no este de acuerdo con lo que dices, defenderia ante cualquiera tu derecho a decirlo, pero ciertas expresiones como "yo soy mas bonita" "yo estoy iluminada" o algunas mas clasicas como "¿me entiendes?" ó "yo soy el mejor", en la mayor parte de las ocasiones solo demuestran un exagerado ego y en general una gran falta de respeto hacia los demas.

"Antes de iros a dormir, un cuento"

http://80.34.38.142:8080/drupal/?q=node/173

Estais todos invitados.

Buenas noches y felices sueños.

MakinillO, (sobre la segunda parte de tu hilo) no lo digas, HAZLO !!!

Para quien carece de argumentos y solo se dedica a intoxicar: ¡¡¡VACIO TOTAL!!!.

No sé si estais enterados, pero, no se vayan, aun hay mas:

"La Complutense, contra el 'canon' por préstamo de libros en las bibliotecas"

Sí, mas canones. Pasen y vean:
http://www.el-mundo.es/navegante/2005/03/01/cultura/1109667479.html

PPPerez, gracias por poner el enlace de diariored (interesantísimo por permitir ver las cosas en perspectiva), y gracias por recordar que cada vez que sale el oso Teddy, el Farregoso o los piratas de la ACAM hablando de "compensaciones", al mismo tiempo están justificando la barbaridad del canon en bibliotecas.

Chari: en el último aserto te voy a dar la razon. Más bonita, mas lista y más de todo. De todo lo bueno, se entiende.

En cuanto a lo de las movilizaciones se empieza a convocar algo (que seremos 20 o 30) delante del Miisterio de (in)Cultura, y luego otra, a ver si somos 40 o 50 y asi... En plan "pásalo". Nadie tenemos (por desgracia) poder de convocatoria, pero insistiendo...

Lo ideal seria tener algun medio de nuestra parte.

Mis medidas contra esta gentuza (Gobierno, Oposicion, Sgae, etc...):

1.- Si todavía vais a sus conciertos, no ir más. Les cortamos su principal fuente de financiación.
2.- Idem para las peliculas españolas.
3.- Darnos de baja de las lineas ADSL en masa, para implicar a las telecos en este tema.
4.- Comprar todos los productos susceptibles de canon en el extranjero. Con una linea RTB de 56k es suficiente y sale mucho más barato. Las empresas fabricantes de estos productos tambien se implicarian en este tema.
5.- Seguir luchando para eliminar el actual canon de los discos CD/DVD. No sea que todo esto sea una cortina de humo para que nos olvidemos del actual canon con el lema "virgencita, virgencita, que me quede como estoy".
6.- Reclamar de las asociaciones de consumidores una mayor implicación y presencia y por parte nuestra, más motivación y dureza a la hora de actuar contra esta gentuza.
7.- En las proximas Elecciones Generales, que se note nuestra abstencion, con una participación del 30%.
8.- Ir pensando en la emigración como ultimo recurso

Piccard,
de acuerdo casi en todo menos en lo de la abstención.

Está dicho por casi todos los estudiosos del tema: la abstención beneficia a los partidos mayoritarios. El voto en blanco también. El voto nulo es la verdadera protesta, o sea con alguna anotación en la papeleta, o dos papeletas juntas o lo que sea que lo invalide.

Ahora, en plan idealista y romántico, prefiero votar partidos minoritarios de esos que, como saben que no van a salir electos, pues ofrecen las cosas normales y racionales que por ahí llaman utopías.

Como bien ha dicho carolo, creo que la única forma de movilizar a la gente es concienciándola, y para eso sería necesario que algún medio contara las cosas como son... cosa que no ocurre.
Digo esto porque hay gente que todavía no se ha enterado que paga un canon por cada cd virgen que compra e incluso hay gente a la que tampoco le importa porque ni siquiera sabe realmente el abuso que supone.
Hasta ahora la televisión sólo ha planteado un par de debates en horas de poca audiencia, pero ningún informativo ni ningún programa de gran audiencia se ha esforzado por tratar de explicar la situación con el canon.
Los telediarios sólo hablan de Internet para hablar de redes de pederastia, sectas satánicas...
Aunque cada vez hay más gente que se acerca a Internet, hay que admitir que aún hay una gran parte de la población que o bien no sabe lo que es o bien tiene una idea equivocada.
En definitiva el gran problema que tenemos es la gran desinformación y manipulación de los grandes medios que además en este caso me da la impresión que se pondrán a favor de los artistas/autores...

Cervera escribe contra el canon

http://navegante2.elmundo.es/navegante/2005/04/05/weblog/1112673346.html

Este tipo de periodismo es el que hace falta, pero no sólo en un medio de Internet, sino en algún programa de gran difusión.
Verdades como puños son las que dice...

Resultaría muy extraño que los "medios" hablarán de repente del carácter abusivo del canon con los internautas cuando sólo se informa de internet cuando hay por medio pornografía infantil o suicidios.

Además, a poco que indagues al respecto del canon y de las sociedades de gestión de derechos (si los de la $ga€ o los piratas de la ACAM son de aupa, te recuerdo que es el C€DRO el que aboga por canon en fotocopiadoras, impresoras y, agárrate, en los libros de las bibliotecas) te darás cuenta que aparte del afán recaudatorio, lo que hay es una duración excesiva de los llamados "derechos". Y no nos engañemos, de la explotación de esos derechos se benefician también periódicos, radios y televisiones.

Pues nada, contra más canon, más justificadas están las descargas. A bajar como locos.

Voté a los socialistas pero creo que es la última vez, en este y otros temas ya no se si todos mienten..... pero estos mienten tambien y mucho, recordemos cuando en la oposición hablaban de derogar el canon y no sólo no lo derogan sino que lo amplían.
Yo los cd's ya los compro desde hace tiempo sin canon (importados) y como esto siga así todo mi hardware lo compraré a traves de internet, lease e-bay o tienda e-comercio, en Inglaterra o Alemania, que si os fijáis ya hoy en día existe una gran diferencia de precio con España aunque contemos el transporte.
Lo tengo claro de mi por ese sistema recibirán lo que sea inevitable (el coste de conexión por ejemplo) o la compra que se presente de improviso.
Un saludo al foro

Buena idea comprar del extranjero. ¿Realmente te sale más baratos? (yo es que tengo Gibraltar aquí al lado...)

Yo en el curro lo compro todo en DELL por internet y a unos precios muy ajustados. Supongo que a nivel particular tambien se pueden comprar y en la web tienen un configurador de equipos muy completo, o sea que... Que le vayan dando a la SGAE, Gobierno y toda la mafia hispana!!

Resumienso un poco de todo lo que estoy leyendo lo que más miedo me da es que el Gobierno no se halla pronunciado. Si no lo ha hecho es porque no descarta la idea de aplicar dicho canon. Deben de estar aprendiendo porque si os acordais al principio hubo un montón de noticias que salían de boca de los ministros y a los pocos días e incluso horas en función de la repercusión se retractaban de lo dicho. Por otra parte no se vosotros pero yo pago mil duros de los de antes por Internet al mes y si no puedo sacarle una rentabilidad ,el coste va a subir y encima no voy a poder emplearlo más que para hacer compras y leer el periódico pues me replantearía el Internet en casa y supongo que como yo muchos, por lo que la SGAE se forrará pero otros caerán en picado.Pero así es la vida, no os preocupeis que siempre podremos vender armas pacificadoras, y me pregunto ¿Quén serán los delincuentes? ¿ Cuántos ministros y diputados hacen con internet lo mismo que el resto de mortales? Me encantaría saber de esto último.

yo creo q el problema es el de siempre, pensais q los partidos politicos van a mirar por la sociedad y al final pasa lo de siempre, q solo miran por su dinero y por si mismos. Da igual quienes estén, siempre será más de lo mismo. Y creo q estos ya han estado otras veces y siempre han salido con las mismas historias.

Hablamos de vivienda, de canon, de lo q querais, vais a pagar, como estais pagando hasta ahora, algunos son esclavos de esos politicos, o constructores a los q votaron, y q les han garantizado ese status social.

España, seguirá en la cola de los paises de cola, como siempre, porque no sabe evolucionar, y porque la evolución supone q la gente tenga que trabajar más. Pero claro, en este país hay q hacerse funcionario o politico para vivir bien. Todo lo demás es secundario.

Ahora te paras a pensar, y al precio de mi adsl, resulta q en el videoclub d abajo, puedo alquilar un dvd x 3€, y copiarlo en media hora. Si calculo q con la mula me cuesta bajar un full-dvd casi un mes, y q al mes pago unos 40€ entre pitos y flautas, pues cada día me planteo q mi adsl, además de ser carisimo, tampoco es q me esté brindando muchas mas ventajas. Además me voy reinsertando en la sociedad y dejo de ser un delicuente.
Para mirar el correo y 2 paginas web, lo hago desde el curro, o desde mi modem.

No creo que las empresas se queden cruzadas de brazos ante esto. Mi jefe jamas me había mencionado nada sobre el canon de cds, sin embargo hoy, se me ha acercado para preguntarme por el rumor de que le cobren por los ordenadores y la adsl más. Son muchos más los afectados ahora y con distintos intereses.

NO KIERO PERJUDICAR A NADIE CON MI COMENTARIO PERO CREO QUE LO Q DEBERIAN QUITAR SI NOS VAN A QUITAR ALGO (XQ ES QUE NO HAY DERECHO) SON LOS PROGRAMAS DE DESCARGAS QUE TODO EL MUNDO UTILIZA Y QUE NO VOY A NOMBRAR XQ ME PARECEN ESTUPENDOS PERO ANTES QUE EL IMPUESTO PREFIERO QUE LOS KITEN, APARTE DE ESTO, QUE PASA QUE UN CANTANTE NO GANA SUFICIENTE CON LAS GALAS? ENTREVISTAS ETC? NOS TIENEN QUE KITAR EL SUELDO A LOS QUE NOS LLEGA A LO JUSTO PARA TERMINAR EL MES Y DARSELO A LOS ARTISTAS PARA QUE LES PUEDA SOBRAR? XQ ESTOY SEGURO QUE LES LLEGA..., EN FIN QUE NO SE EN QUE ESTAN PENSANDO NO MIRAN POR ESPAÑA Y SI SIGUE ASI JAMAS ALCANZAREMOS EL NIVEL DE UNA BUENA POTENCIA ECONOMICA COMO SON EEUU ALEMANIA INGLATERRA ETC. ESPAÑOLES LEVANTEMONOS QUE TODAVIA SOMOS ESPAÑOLES, NO PENSEIS QUE TODO ESTÁ PERDIDO QUE TODAVIA NOS KEDAN MUCHAS SARTENES Y OYAS QUE PARTIRLE EN LA CABEZA A MAS DE UNO Y A VER QUIEN TIENE COJONES DE MANDAR EN MI CASA. POLITICOS = GRANDES ACTORES

Hay que acabar con todos los de la SGAE, todo esto es por culpa de los grupos de pop y la gente que los apoya, que son fusilanimes sin cerebro.

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